Between the Bars: Comments on 'Evil, In Thy Service'https://betweenthebars.org/posts/commentfeed/256832023-01-13T12:08:23ZComment2023-01-13T12:08:23ZJulia/people/show/8119tag:betweenthebars.org,2023-01-13:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c17658'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/8119'>Julia</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 1 year, 2 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/17658/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=17658'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
Dear Robert,<br />I just got your letter of January 1st. Glad to hear from you, also you seem to have misread my comment, I was "unhappy with MY postponing of reply", not yours! No worries there, I am glad to read from you, and if I am not than I assume there is a good reason for it.<br />Warm greetings,<br />Julia
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2022-10-15T15:48:58ZJulia/people/show/8119tag:betweenthebars.org,2022-10-15:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c17532'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/8119'>Julia</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 1 year, 5 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/17532/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=17532'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
Dear Robert, happy with your letters that reached me, unhappy with my postponing of reply, I just heard a verse of a poem and now forward the whole thing to you. Julia<br /><br />September 1, 1939 (title)<br />W. H. Auden <br /><br />I sit in one of the dives<br />On Fifty-second Street<br />Uncertain and afraid<br />As the clever hopes expire<br />Of a low dishonest decade:<br />Waves of anger and fear<br />Circulate over the bright<br />And darkened lands of the earth,<br />Obsessing our private lives;<br />The unmentionable odour of death<br />Offends the September night.<br /><br />Accurate scholarship can<br />Unearth the whole offence<br />From Luther until now<br />That has driven a culture mad,<br />Find what occurred at Linz,<br />What huge imago made<br />A psychopathic god:<br />I and the public know<br />What all schoolchildren learn,<br />Those to whom evil is done<br />Do evil in return.<br /><br />Exiled Thucydides knew<br />All that a speech can say<br />About Democracy,<br />And what dictators do,<br />The elderly rubbish they talk<br />To an apathetic grave;<br />Analysed all in his book,<br />The enlightenment driven away,<br />The habit-forming pain,<br />Mismanagement and grief:<br />We must suffer them all again.<br /><br />Into this neutral air<br />Where blind skyscrapers use<br />Their full height to proclaim<br />The strength of Collective Man,<br />Each language pours its vain<br />Competitive excuse:<br />But who can live for long<br />In an euphoric dream;<br />Out of the mirror they stare,<br />Imperialism's face<br />And the international wrong.<br /><br />Faces along the bar<br />Cling to their average day:<br />The lights must never go out,<br />The music must always play,<br />All the conventions conspire<br />To make this fort assume<br />The furniture of home;<br />Lest we should see where we are,<br />Lost in a haunted wood,<br />Children afraid of the night<br />Who have never been happy or good.<br /><br />The windiest militant trash<br />Important Persons shout<br />Is not so crude as our wish:<br />What mad Nijinsky wrote<br />About Diaghilev<br />Is true of the normal heart;<br />For the error bred in the bone<br />Of each woman and each man<br />Craves what it cannot have,<br />Not universal love<br />But to be loved alone.<br /><br />From the conservative dark<br />Into the ethical life<br />The dense commuters come,<br />Repeating their morning vow;<br />"I will be true to the wife,<br />I'll concentrate more on my work,"<br />And helpless governors wake<br />To resume their compulsory game:<br />Who can release them now,<br />Who can reach the deaf,<br />Who can speak for the dumb?<br /><br />All I have is a voice<br />To undo the folded lie,<br />The romantic lie in the brain<br />Of the sensual man-in-the-street<br />And the lie of Authority<br />Whose buildings grope the sky:<br />There is no such thing as the State<br />And no one exists alone;<br />Hunger allows no choice<br />To the citizen or the police;<br />We must love one another or die.<br /><br />Defenceless under the night<br />Our world in stupor lies;<br />Yet, dotted everywhere,<br />Ironic points of light<br />Flash out wherever the Just<br />Exchange their messages:<br />May I, composed like them<br />Of Eros and of dust,<br />Beleaguered by the same<br />Negation and despair,<br />Show an affirming flame.
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2021-04-18T17:32:16ZJulia/people/show/8119tag:betweenthebars.org,2021-04-18:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c16912'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/8119'>Julia</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 2 years, 11 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/16912/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=16912'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
Dear Robert,<br />why not send you some poems, while hoping all is well with you! This time by the poet Erich Fried, who I always thought is a German poet but happens to be Austrian and Jewish and having fled to England from the Nazis, English too, probably...<br />His most famous poems is this one: <br /><br />What It Is<br />by Erich Fried<br /><br />It is nonsense<br />says reason.<br />It is what it is<br />says Love.<br /><br />It is a dangerous<br />says discretion.<br />It is terrifying<br />says fear.<br />It is hopeless<br />says insight.<br />It is what it is<br />says Love.<br /><br />It is ludicrous<br />says pride.<br />It is reckless<br />says caution.<br />It is impractical<br />says experience.<br />It is what it is <br />says Love.<br /><br /><br />----<br /><br />Of this one I have a memory of elementary school, maybe we read it there?<br /><br />Humorless<br />by Erich Fried<br /><br />The boys<br />throw stones<br />at the frogs<br />in jest.<br /><br />The frogs<br />die<br />in earnest.<br /><br /><br />It is a lesson in perspective, no doubt.<br /><br />Warm greetings,<br />Julia
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2019-09-22T23:35:53ZRobert Outman/people/show/895tag:betweenthebars.org,2019-09-22:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c15410'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/895'>Robert Outman</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 4 years, 6 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/15410/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=15410'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
(scanned reply – <a href='/posts/28051/comment-response'>view as blog post</a>)
<script type='text/javascript'>
function load_more_pages(page_num, link) {
var new_group = $(
document.createElement("div")
).attr(
"class", "scan-page-group"
).html(
"<img src='/static//img/spinner.gif' alt='Loading...' />Loading..."
);
$(".scan-page-group:last").after(new_group);
$.ajax({
url: "/posts/more_pages/28051",
type: "GET",
data: {
'minorder': page_num,
},
success: function(data) {
new_group.html(data);
$(link).remove();
},
error: function() {
new_group.html("<div class='error'>Error loading pages.</div>");
}
});
return false;
}
</script>
<div class='scan-pages'>
<div class='scan-original-link'>
uploaded Sept. 22, 2019.
<a href='/media/uploads/blogs/scans/2019/09/17/B32DDfFFdoc28051/doc28051.pdf'>Original (PDF)<img src='/static/img/pdfreaders-f-22px.png' alt='pdf' /></a>
</div>
<div style='clear: both;'></div>
<div class='scan-page-group'>
<div class='scan-page-number'>
<a name='order0'></a>
<a href='?minorder=0#order0' style='color: inherit; text-decoration: none;'>
page 1/1
</a>
</div>
<div class='scan-page'>
<img src='/media/uploads/blogs/scans/2019/09/17/B32DDfFFdoc28051/doc28051-page-0.jpg' alt="Scanned page" />
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style='clear: both;'></div>
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2019-08-24T05:02:52ZJulia/people/show/8119tag:betweenthebars.org,2019-08-24:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c15362'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/8119'>Julia</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 4 years, 7 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/15362/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=15362'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
Dear Robert,<br />Sentients, another word for my ever expanding vocabulary, though I can only find the word as an adjective in the dictionary and not in plural at all. But otherwise I can only agree, they make the world a better place...<br />This time I have a story for you, same author, Toon Tellegen. He has written a lot of these stories. Here we go:<br /><br />The sun was shining and the squirrel and the ant were sitting in the grass on the river-bank. Above them the willow rustled, in front of them the water burbled, and in the distance the thrush was singing.<br /><br />‘In my opinion,’ said the squirrel, ‘I am happy now.’<br /><br />The ant said nothing and chewed at a blade of grass.<br /><br />‘I think,’ said the squirrel, ‘that I could never be happier than I am now.’<br /><br />‘Well...’ said the ant. ‘And if a honey-cake came flying by with a note on it saying: for the squirrel and the ant...?’<br /><br />‘Yes,’ said the squirrel. ‘Then I should be even happier. But happier than that is impossible.’<br /><br />‘Well...’ said the ant. ‘And if I'd been planning to go on a journey and I said: squirrel, I'm not going, I'm staying with you, all right?...’<br /><br />‘Yes,’ said the squirrel. ‘You're right. Then I should be even happier...’<br /><br />‘And if the cricket was throwing a really big party tonight, and if you suddenly got a letter from the whale with an invitation, and if today the sun didn't set any more, and if everything smelt of fresh beech-nuts...?’<br /><br />The squirrel didn't answer. He looked at the sparkling water and thought: so actually I'm not really that happy after all...<br /><br />He looked sideways at the ant. But the ant had his eyes shut, chewed at his blade of grass and let the sun shine on his face.<br /><br />What am I then? the squirrel wondered. If I'm not very happy...<br /><br />It was as if a cloud had come between him and the sun. He couldn't answer that question.<br /><br />In the distance the thrush fell silent and the nightingale started to sing, just like that, in the middle of the day.<br /><br />Hey, thought the squirrel, what's going on? He felt a stirring in his eyes. Tears? He wondered. Are those tears? He heaved a deep sigh, folded his tail behind his head and stared at the sky. I just won't think any more, he thought. But he knew that that was very difficult.<br /><br />So they lay side by side on the river-bank, the ant and the squirrel.<br /><br />‘How lovely it is just lying here relaxing, squirrel,’ said the ant a long time later.<br /><br />The squirrel said nothing.<br /><br />‘I've never been so lovely and relaxed before,’ said the ant.<br /><br />I wish, thought the squirrel, that just once I could be sitting on a branch with my legs crossed with the ant down below shouting up: you're right, squirrel, I admit it, you're absolutely right...<br /><br />The sun slipped slowly down the sky, the river burbled and in the distance the blackbird sang. The squirrel just looked and just listened and didn't think about anything any more.<br /><br />From Maybe They Were Nowhere (Misschien waren zij nergens). Amsterdam: Querido, 1991.<br /><br />Warm greetings, Julia
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2019-08-21T22:44:13ZRobert Outman/people/show/895tag:betweenthebars.org,2019-08-21:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c15358'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/895'>Robert Outman</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 4 years, 7 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/15358/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=15358'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
(scanned reply – <a href='/posts/27928/comment-response'>view as blog post</a>)
<script type='text/javascript'>
function load_more_pages(page_num, link) {
var new_group = $(
document.createElement("div")
).attr(
"class", "scan-page-group"
).html(
"<img src='/static//img/spinner.gif' alt='Loading...' />Loading..."
);
$(".scan-page-group:last").after(new_group);
$.ajax({
url: "/posts/more_pages/27928",
type: "GET",
data: {
'minorder': page_num,
},
success: function(data) {
new_group.html(data);
$(link).remove();
},
error: function() {
new_group.html("<div class='error'>Error loading pages.</div>");
}
});
return false;
}
</script>
<div class='scan-pages'>
<div class='scan-original-link'>
uploaded Aug. 21, 2019.
<a href='/media/uploads/blogs/scans/2019/08/16/b2aD71dAdoc27928/doc27928.pdf'>Original (PDF)<img src='/static/img/pdfreaders-f-22px.png' alt='pdf' /></a>
</div>
<div style='clear: both;'></div>
<div class='scan-page-group'>
<div class='scan-page-number'>
<a name='order0'></a>
<a href='?minorder=0#order0' style='color: inherit; text-decoration: none;'>
page 1/1
</a>
</div>
<div class='scan-page'>
<img src='/media/uploads/blogs/scans/2019/08/16/b2aD71dAdoc27928/doc27928-page-0.jpg' alt="Scanned page" />
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style='clear: both;'></div>
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2019-07-27T05:51:13ZJulia/people/show/8119tag:betweenthebars.org,2019-07-27:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c15329'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/8119'>Julia</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 4 years, 8 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/15329/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=15329'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
Dear Robert,<br />I am glad the sending of poems was a happy surprise. And I just found one by the same author the he made just for you:<br /><br />WEATHER FORECAST - Poem by Toon Tellegen<br />Tomorrow we will see unsettled and unusual weather.<br />Instead of the sun rising at 05:24, a dog will rise,<br />a fiery red dog that will climb up through the sky,<br />wearing an iron chain round its neck,<br />and it will growl at the clouds<br />that will hastily make room for him.<br />At 13:37 he will be at the zenith and bark,<br />he'll bend forward and chase everyone inside<br />with his furious scowl.<br />‘The dog is shining! The dog is shining!' everyone will whisper,<br />but the dog won't shine, the dog will yank at his chain<br />and bare his teeth.<br />Late in the afternoon he will descend to the horizon and howl.<br />Everyone will emerge again,<br />sit down on their benches outside their houses and say:<br />‘O dog, why are you howling . . . '<br />People will want to pat him and console him<br />or give him something to eat.<br />But no one will be able to reach him<br />and everyone will close their eyes and let the howling<br />wash over them.<br />At 21:51 the dog will go down and never return.<br />The day after tomorrow the sun will shine again,<br />that big, round, dazzling thing that everyone knows,<br />the most ordinary thing in the whole cosmos,<br />that had already existed for billions of years before there was any mention<br />of a sky or a firmament,<br />and that does nothing but rise, set and shine.<br />It will be a pleasant day.<br />But should you wonder, the day after tomorrow, why you're so sad,<br />it will be because you miss the dog,<br />the dog that will appear in the sky tomorrow. <br /><br />Warm greetings,<br />Julia
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2019-07-26T20:55:38ZRobert Outman/people/show/895tag:betweenthebars.org,2019-07-26:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c15325'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/895'>Robert Outman</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 4 years, 8 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/15325/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=15325'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
(scanned reply – <a href='/posts/27862/comment-response'>view as blog post</a>)
<script type='text/javascript'>
function load_more_pages(page_num, link) {
var new_group = $(
document.createElement("div")
).attr(
"class", "scan-page-group"
).html(
"<img src='/static//img/spinner.gif' alt='Loading...' />Loading..."
);
$(".scan-page-group:last").after(new_group);
$.ajax({
url: "/posts/more_pages/27862",
type: "GET",
data: {
'minorder': page_num,
},
success: function(data) {
new_group.html(data);
$(link).remove();
},
error: function() {
new_group.html("<div class='error'>Error loading pages.</div>");
}
});
return false;
}
</script>
<div class='scan-pages'>
<div class='scan-original-link'>
uploaded July 26, 2019.
<a href='/media/uploads/blogs/scans/2019/07/16/FecdE2Afdoc27862/doc27862.pdf'>Original (PDF)<img src='/static/img/pdfreaders-f-22px.png' alt='pdf' /></a>
</div>
<div style='clear: both;'></div>
<div class='scan-page-group'>
<div class='scan-page-number'>
<a name='order0'></a>
<a href='?minorder=0#order0' style='color: inherit; text-decoration: none;'>
page 1/1
</a>
</div>
<div class='scan-page'>
<img src='/media/uploads/blogs/scans/2019/07/16/FecdE2Afdoc27862/doc27862-page-0.jpg' alt="Scanned page" />
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style='clear: both;'></div>
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>
Comment2019-06-20T13:09:56ZJulia/people/show/8119tag:betweenthebars.org,2019-06-20:/posts/25683/evil-in-thy-service/comments
<div class='comment'>
<a name='c15272'></a>
<div class='commentbyline'>
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<a href='/people/show/8119'>Julia</a>
</td>
<td>
<span class='comment-date'>Posted 4 years, 9 months ago.</span>
</td>
<td>
<a href='/comments/comment/15272/flag'
class='comment-flag'
title='Flag comment'> </a>
<span class='favorites-control'>
<a class='favorite-button'
href='/comments/mark_favorite_after_login?comment_id=15272'
title='Mark as favorite'><span style='padding-left: 10px;'>Favorite</span></a>
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class='commentbody'>
Jealousy was young,<br />still vaporous,<br />and love shuffled past the first corn ill at ease,<br />pricked itself on the first thorns,<br />didn't know what fright was yet<br />and bleeding.<br />In the distance lay the word: large, wrinkly and empty.<br />The laws of nature creaked, crunched,<br />got into their stride one by one.<br />Apples fell, leaves, stars.<br />Rivers flowed from the first mountains.<br />Cain raised his arm.<br />Everything started, everything was new,<br />everything was inescapable. <br /><br />------------------------------------<br /><br />The Truth<br />You must, they said, face the truth.<br />Now! Immediately!<br />When it grew dark they whispered:<br />now you may face something else <br />if you like.<br />It was quiet<br />and I faced love<br />and thoughtlessness with its giant wings<br />and the simplicity of the moonlight on my wall.<br />Now the truth again, they said. Now! <br /><br />----------------------------------------<br /><br />A Man Wanted To Talk About Love<br />A man wanted to talk about love.<br />No! Not about love! everyone cried<br />and everyone departed or knocked him down,<br />and death peered through a window:<br />About love? Ridiculous!<br />That man put on a pair of wings<br />like those of a thrush,<br />but larger and more despairing,<br />and away he flew and sang about love<br />and love sang about him, murmured about him <br />never did a man go to bed more sorrowful<br />on the indifferent earth. <br /><br />----------------------------------<br /><br />Dying?? Never heard of it!<br />But one evening, under a street lamp, I found a poem about dying.<br />It was rain-drenched and almost illegible,<br />but everything was in it.<br />I learnt it by heart and thought:<br />might there be just such a poem, such a rain-drenched, almost<br />illegible poem,<br />about love, with everything in it about love,<br />and should I learn that by heart too?<br /><br />-----------------------------------------<br /><br />Dear Robert, just some poems by the Dutch poet Toon Tellegen. Hope I havent send them yet. The last one hits quite home right now for me. <br />You're last post on Between the bars is from NOV. 12, 2017, you knew that? Anyways, hope you are fine when receiving these words, warm greetings, Julia
</div>
<br style='clear: both;' />
</div>