Reply ID: jj2w

Buhogrunon: You know what? I reread your letter and a couple of things strike me. One is you want proof, so I'll give it to you. Again you keep harping about how religion MAKES us believe we are weak... so that we will believe in God. You steadily take the misguided and arrogant opinion of how omnipotent you are and the power of willpower.

Nothing unusual about that belief, it's certainly the common one professed nowadays. Are you a fan of Nietzsche? Superman? Pure drive and willpower?

Well, I'll tell you where we get our belief and you can try this for yourself to see how powerful your own will is. And I'll even make it easy for you by taking the Bible out of the argument so you have to take absolutely nothing on Faith.

"Within the limits of the physically possible, there's nothing willpower can't do", your own words. Right? If that's true for your, then I'll admit that you don't need Jesus or any Saviour. While still admitting that I do.

Let me tell you something about willpower, though. Romans ch. 7 talks specifically about this so, well, I said I'd leave it out, so I will. But just language you accept and understand, science... I can will any damn thing I want. For example, how many people make New Year's resolutions? A lot. How many keep them throughout the whole year? Not that many.

Why, I ask you, is this? If willpower is so all powerful that we can do anything within the limits of the physically possible? 'Cause there is another force that is operating against your will. That's why. Some people get tired, discouraged, boredom, etc... all these work against your will and wear it down and weaken and break your resolve. Sure, you can say, "Oh, I just changed my mind." Very well, try again. And again. And again. And again. Doesn't it seem odd to you that there are some things that are definitely within the physical possible that you can't do?

I can say I'm going to study for 8 hours a day. My mind may become flooded with lustful thoughts, or any number of distracting influences, and try as I might, willpower comes up short at some point.

You ever been in horrifyingly terrifying situations, and you knew what you need to do, what the right thing to do was, but willpower alone was not sufficient enough to prevent you from taking a less terrifying course? Where your willpower was definitely INFLUENCED, if not controlled?

Greed, lust, anger, fear, covetousness, all these act against your will and induce you to act in contrary ways.

A lot of people do things that they will not to do, that they obviously know will result in harmful consequences. Things that they regret doing over and over and over. I suspect that you're a homosexual (you keep bringing it up). I had this friend named China that was a punk, so tell me if this makes sense to you. This guy believed in the Bible. He said he tried over and over to live by the Bible's rules, ie, no homosexuality. But he has these irrational impulses at work within him, you would know them as genetic predispositions. These are genetic traits that are hardwired into your DNA that you do not choose and are outside the realm of rational thought. They are irrational impulses. Instinct. And they are defective. All of our human instincts are now defective as a matter of fact, but back to his defects.

Now if willpower was so dang powerful, and he was pushing his will up against that DNA impulse, to not lust after men or think homo thoughts or masturbate was definitely within the realm of the physically possible, was it not? Damn right it is. But he fell. Yeah, he could say, "Oh, I just chose to do so and so", OK. But he tried again. And he could see his resolve weaken, and his resolution fail. He fell again. And so he tried again and again and again.

He definitely willed not to be a sinner, but he definitely found out that he had not the power to do that. A force was at work within him that went against his conscious will. He gave up. Who knows, he may be back on the track. He wants God, but is under the misguided belief that Christ can't supply him with the Grace to aid and empower his will where willpower is lacking. Whatever reason, he acts like a girl today.

I know alcoholics and drug addicts that want to stop, try to stop, will to stop. Some may have genetic predispositions, again, outside the realm of conscious control. Instinct. Yeah, we are all different, some have stronger, some weaker impulses. Some can overcome these defects with willpower alone, some can't.

I could give examples all day long, even some defects that war against our wills that are common to every living man on earth.

And here's the beauty of the Bible that I have to introduce into the argument, 'cause unless you try you will never know how weak you are. And it will shatter your glorified image of yourself if you ever take it serious enough to try. But you can lie to me and however else, no one can know if you are truthful or not. But you will know if you ever try. Then you don't have to believe the Bible that you are weak and there is a power higher than you. You'll have proof of experience to support your belief.

And this is why I said you don't need Jesus if you can pass this test.

This is the whole reason Christ came, to empower us to do what we cannot do. What willpower can't do even though it lies perfectly within the limits of the physically possible.

We argue about the different standards of morality. All that's fine and good. You may be able to meet some simplified watered down version of the morality you decide to abide by. But deep down inside I seriously doubt that you can even live up to your own glorified expectations if you were striving for perfect adherence to them.

But the Ten Commandments. Keeping them in THOUGHT, WORD and DEED, if you could do that, then yeah, you would not need Christ. You would be sinless.

Now just for giggles, and since you can, try to abide by that for 90 days. Perfect adherence. You can't. No one can.

You'll tell yourself, "this is stupid", "I can but why bother, I choose not to", all kinds of excuses before you sin, even in the mind, but every time your willpower and resolve will disintegrate. This is the whole reason that God gave so many blessings for obedience and punishments for disobedience. Not 'cause he is vindictive as you say, but to ensure that we would try it, and trying it that we would see. You will never know until you try and fail what you can't do. And you will never believe it until you fail so many times that you are convinced it is impossible.

There's the stumbling block for you. Now you may never believe enough to try. You will always have an excuse for giving up. But if you do believe even enough to prove God wrong if you can, you'll see what I am talking about.

Then you may know what I mean by prayer and how it empowers us to do what we could not formerly do on our own. You ain't even got to read the Bible, your own life experiences will prove the point.

All that other nonsense you are talking about is just pretty theory. Sounds good on paper but has no basis in reality.

What do you idolize? I mean, what is your fantasy? Be a millionaire? If so, are you one? If willpower is so strong, why not? You can put a plan together surely... 20 years of brain surgeon school, scrimping and saving, living on peanuts... surely the desire to splurge will be no match for your willpower? Or the desire for recreation? Or sleep? Push through on straight will alone. Order and govern everything around you to fit the plans you have laid out in your mind. Surely insecurities or indecisiveness shouldn't thwart the power of your will?

Or is your dream to be the MMA champion of the world? Why not work out and train 16 hours a day. Schedule a fight every day of the year. Ha! Surely the pain and endurance and sacrifice are no match for your naked will?

Ha! Buhogrunon. You have an exalted opinion of yourself, I sure am glad that God through His providence broke me free from that delusion. But like I said, put yourself to the test and let's see it. Then come back and talk to me about how strong you are. And after you can't do what you will to do, come holler at me, I'll show you how to get the power...

Anyways, hope this letter gives you a little more what you were asking for instead of the bald Faith arguments you are used to.

Hope you have a nice day regardless. Take it easy out there.

Chris Hall #1565195
Ellis Unit
1697 FM 980
Huntsville, TX 77343