Buhogrunon: Yeah, I can see you're pretty well read. What are you, some kind of a teacher or something? You seem to have a pretty good memory on a lot of subjects, it's a damn shame that your head happened to get filled with a lot of twisted and distorted facts... but in the modern secularist line that history and entertainment and everything else is written in nowadays, I guess you just echo the prevailing view that the world currently holds on these subjects. Still don't mean it's not wrong, or delusional, or completely at odds with reality.

I mean, seriously, do you seriously believe that the Christians were martyred in Rome because they were criminals and that they were treated just as OTHER CRIMINALS? Ha! Seriously? Man, I don't even know where to start with a statement like that, or which emperor to quote as decreeing that all Christian Knights should be stripped of rank and senators deposed unless they renounced... legionaries burned, frozen, scourged to death, children boiled to death for not renouncing the Faith... What's the crime? I mean, if you consider a law that outlaws Christianity under penalty of death, enslavement, loss of property, etc... as the basis for proclaiming them violators of the law deserving of punishment... well, that's a pretty twisted way of getting around admitting that they were persecuted. I mean, for that matter, I could say, well, being Black is punishable by death unless you are owned by a slave master... and then when I am rightfully charged with violating human rights and being racist, you don't think it would be a cop-out for me to claim "Hey, they broke the law! Anyone else who so broke the law I declared would have been treated the same!" Is that not the basis for your argument that the Christian martyrs weren't martyred for their Faith, but for their criminal activity? Ha!

You know it USED to be a compliment to say to someone "You're a very discriminating individual." Not anymore. But it meant that you didn't believe anything you read, you looked at the motives of the writers, historians, etc... you researched the topic from different angles, perhaps from writers with opposing viewpoints or worldviews (or as your lingo goes "lines"). I have a broad, if somewhat unorthodox understanding of history, I love history as a matter of fact, but I don't read it from one angle, I really like viewing the same story from an Islamicist angle, a Communist angle... I think the so-called "secularist" angle is really the most simplified and watered down way to view any historical period... European or otherwise. Yeah, I'll admit, real Old Catholic historians I feel are more in touch with reality than anyone else, but even then I can see they are biased on more than a few points... who isn't?

As for Illuminati propaganda. Well, for conspiracies to be so loony and crazy, they sure are common throughout history, both past and present. I'm sure that the people conducting them then called their accusers "conspiracy theorists" also... I hear the Communists always use that argument. But y'all aren't much better. I mean, who really believes that it is some big time capitalist plan to brainwash the masses into consuming more and more, to keep them producing to keep up with the artificially created consumer culture so that the parasitic bourgeoisie can continue to leech off the difference between their labor and the wages paid for that labor?

Ha! The same people who deride everyone else as conspiracy theorists have built their entire line around one big conspiracy theory!

Me? I don't much care about the Illuminati, think they were a come and go little group that may no longer even exist. But surely you acknowledge the fact that people unite to achieve common goals that exceed the abilities of any one person or small group of people? That's not a conspiracy, that's life! Nations do it when they form coalitions to topple governments that oppose mutual objectives or interests... people do it to place political candidates in power... it's true on local levels, national levels or international levels.

...about the minarets, my point wasn't an architectural one, it was that the Muslims weren't so tolerant as they desecrated the Hagia Sophia and turned it into a mosque when they forcefully took over Constantinople against the will of its inhabitants. They weren't out to bring the religions closer together. Their goal was conquest, plain and simple.

Janissaries... prisoners of war... ha! Yeah. Like they were given a choice! The Muslims waged a relentless war on them for centuries. They had no choice but to fight or submit. The Muslims were the aggressors all the way around! Asia Minor (Anatolia), Bulgaria, Serbia... etc... the Turks had no claim to that land, they were from far east Asia! Even the little bit that you do admit proves my point, which was that the Muslims weren't any more tolerant than the Christians were. In opposition to your whole argument. I have a Koran, and read Muslim history... contrary to the lies taught nowadays about them being peace loving liberal revolutionaries, they were anything but.

But just watch. The same spirit (or "line" or ideological thought) that kicked off the French Revolution, yeah, they may use the Muslims as a part of their little coalition to completely erase and destroy Christianity from the minds and hearts of Western Civilization... but if and when that time ever comes... they will prove themselves to be just as hostile to Islam then as they are now to us (as in me and Catholics).

Really, I think your religion is the most intolerant that the world has ever known, barring the Communists of course. I just don't know what to call your religion because y'all never frame it as such. But that whole line of thought that came out of the French Revolution that supposedly preaches "equality, liberty, fraternity", the same one that eliminated monarchies and theocracies, the same line that conjured the idea of a separation of Church and State, that so much influenced the framers of the American Constitution, and still has a stranglehold on European politics. That religion is more intolerant than any Christian kingdom ever was. I mean what it preaches SOUNDS real good, as does any agenda of any dictator, it always SOUNDS good and looks good on paper, but it's not good. I mean look at your EU treaty of Lisbon Article 67.3... "The Union shall endeavor to ensure a high level of security through measures to prevent and combat crime, racism and xenophobia... etc". OK, but who defines xenophobia and racism? Who defines "security measures"? See my point? It becomes a matter of anyone you say is a racist being obliterated and anyone who holds views opposing your own. I mean, what if I am not racist, but love my culture, and my distinctiveness and wish to retain it. What if I am, and I am, a Nationalist, and feel that I and mine should have a homeland that actually gives a damn about us, but that other nations also should be able to pursue their own destinies as well? I am not a racist. But being viewed and labeled as one, under your so-called humanitarian ideals based on rationality and reason, now we have become a target for suppression. That is intolerant. And the Muslims will not escape it either, I'm afraid.

I would define that as a Spirit that has taken control of the West. And it can manifest itself in various ways, and under different governments, and the people that hold that ideology don't have to be engaged in a conspiracy... just the simple fact that they think alike and view the world and its problems alike will ensure that they will more often than not be working to further the same goals. You don't have to call it a religion. That's fine. But Christianity opposes it, and will oppose it, and I guess that's why you view us so harshly.

As far as the Jews go. Thanks for the info on the Papal Bull... but 1250 was after they sold out the West. I guess that was reactionary persecution. Necessary to guard against further betrayal, I would imagine.

I really hate to get on an anti-semitic rant too, 'cause I believe that there are some very good Jews out there. But a lot of your arguments can be refuted to what the Jews are doing right now today! Just severely under-reported, of course.

You downgrade the Christians for not being satisfied with the right to make pilgrimages to the Holy Land... and earlier saying that it was not the Jews' fight but on the actions of their ancestors... and that they had just as much right to live in Spain as the Spaniards 'cause they were born there. But is that not what the Zionists did, and are doing in Israel? I mean, weren't the Palestinians lawfully living there in 1947? When the Jews went in and forced 700,000 out of their homes? What about the Revisionist Zionist militia, the Irgun, who genocided men, women and children they encountered to form a Jewish state, by and for Jews? You say the Jews never engaged in tactics like Hitler... maybe not eugenics but racist genocide nonetheless. I mean, even now, you have around a million Palestinians living in Gaza and another 2.5 million in the West Bank, that have no right to vote, no right to travel to other parts of Israel, no say so over their own land. OK, you deny the existence of Race... but how can an atheist Jew (not religious, but racial Jew) be born in the West Bank and have full citizenship, voting rights, travel rights, etc while a non-Jew born in the same West Bank has no voting rights, no right to travel...? How is the Jews' treatment of the Palestinians any less discriminating than the Christians treatment of Jewish Spaniards in the 1200s? But it's worse! The Jews restrict their trade, won't allow in gas, or imports in an effort to starve them into submission... how can they complain of discrimination when they do the same in their own land? Or the same western nations that support Zionist Israel, how can they accuse the Christians of committing crimes that they mirror through their foreign aid, military aid, free-trade agreements, etc? Hmmm. That doesn't sound hypocritical to you?

As for the Christians' forced conversion... read up on the 1st century Jewish historian Josephus. Antiquities 13:9:1 relates how John Hyrcanus subdued the Idumeans and forced them to circumcise and convert to Judaism or face extermination... in 13:11:3, they did the same to the Itureans... 13:15:4 they did the same to several cities of the Phoenicians, Syrians and Idumeans... and they "utterly destroyed a city (Pella) when they refused to be circumcised"... the historian Dio Cassius also speaks of all this. They were not, and are not today, much better than the Christians they criticize were then. They just have better press.

But read some Revisionist Zionist material. Like Jacobinsky... or Benjamin Netanyahu's father... they confess quite openly that they view the Palestinians as a "slave race" and that any dreams they have of nationalism should be beaten out of them until their spirit is "crushed" and that then "they will take what's offered to them in submission".

Yeah... real innocent victims there. And y'all call me racist. I actually sympathize and feel for the Palestinians. They're in the right.

Not to say that all Jews are bad, 'cause a lot of them would agree with me. But they are not the ones that have power in Israel or in American politics. The Zionists are. And they are the ones supported by Western governments.

The American Jewish Congress, the ADL (anti-defamation league of B'Nai B'rith) or the highly active AIPAC (American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee) is it a conspiracy theory to notice the plain fact that it is a lobbyist group that finances the campaigns of numerous Senators and representatives that will vote for pro-Israeli policies and arms agreements and trade agreements with an Israeli government that is clearly in the wrong? Or is it just coincidence that America has free trade agreements with Israel, that the IRS allows tax deductions for donations for Israelis (racially Jewish ones) to settle on Palestinian territory in the West Bank? Ha! Or that when the entire UN votes on Palestinian/Israeli issues... the vote usually comes down to the whole world siding with Palestine and the US the sole opposer and exercising its veto power. Is that really called a conspiracy when the senators vote with the lobbyists that fund their campaign? No! That's politics... and provable ones at that!

As far as your complaint that the Jews could not proselytize in Spain. Well, today in Spain, they can... but in Israel, a Christian cannot legally proselytize a Jew... nor can a Jew marry a non-Jew... etc... want some penal codes? Ha! Tolerance!

Yeah, you're right about Julius Evola though... I love that guy! Fascist and all!

OK, buhogrunon, it was nice chatting with you... for what it's worth. I'll pray for you that the Lord will give you some understanding though. But I do understand where your passive approach comes from now that I know you're a female. I thought you were a gay dude and that was why you were so passive and thought the world was as well, but now I can see I was wrong? So you see?... I'm not only a racist... I'm also a sexist! But you have to admit... my stereotype was right!

OK, I'm gonna get off this trip. You take it easy out there though... I got a feeling that this crazy world is about to get a whole lot crazier!

Respectfully,

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