Sept. 28, 2019

Some Fallacies of Theists: An Attempt to Save Catholics' & Other Believers' Souls

From Prometheus Writes! by Nathaniel Lindell (author's profile)


Date: 9/20/2019 10:51:36 PM Subject: Reply ID wa3r
Some Fallacies of Theists: An Attempt to Save
Catholics' & Other Believers' Souls
by Nate A. Lindell created 20 Sept. 2019
"What makes man choose good over evil?. Prove it." Father John asked me, then bravely blocked me from emailing a reply. This is the first fallacy typical with religionists:
1) Plugging Their Ears
It manifests in many forms a) crying, b) blocking you from emailing them, c) seeing you as less than human, a "thing," & worst, d) seeing you as an enemy, thus something to be disregarded or attacked when they can't justify their beliefs or you decline to play make believe with them.
It's delusional, as exemplified by Father John, who asked me to keep an "open mind," while closing his own.
Delusions are a beach to crack! When someone has built their whole view of truth & reality (i.e. their psychoepistemology) on someone's imagined/inspired "spiritual reality, and part of that belief system is that it's the real or highest reality (and to question that is a sin that will get you eternal torture in hell), you can't reasonably dispute that because the belief is not based on reason. (Why people are so prone to such delusions is another issue, worth further consideration...)
2) Labelling Things Evil
- ------------------------------
Father John asks why some people "choose" good over evil. First, as I've demonstrated before (see my prior post, "Do We Really Have A Choice"), we don't have free will, although we feel/think we do. Secondly, what's the definition of "good" & "evil" we're using here? If by "good" you, Father John, mean what the Catholic Church wants one to do, that would include remaining silent about being raped by priests, playing along with a corrupt org, & at various points in history (as exemplified by the majority of Popes) killing competitors, fornicating with prostitutes & boys/girls, murdering disbelievers & scientists, then that definition of "good" is arbitrary & describes "evil", to me.
A less arbitrary definition of "good" (vs. "evil") may be exemplified by "the Good Samaritan" story in the Bible: helping someone in need without expecting anything in return. What makes people do that? Having done so & doing so on a regular basis, I believe that it's either innate or developed moral consciousness that causes one to act in this manner. Now, assuming Jesus told the Good Samaritan story, then Jesus himself recognized that religionists were not "good" simply because they embraced religion, and Atheists (that's what "Samaritan" is a metaphor for, as those familiar with biblical era & area history -- such as the Catholic professor of such, whom I visited with at Terre Haute USP in 2014 (as I said, Father John, I'm neither closed minded nor ignorant -- I actually do know it all :) !] told me, as Samaritans abandoned their Israelite traditions, & mixed with Gentiles) are not necessarily "evil."
This isn't a matter of "calling evil good & good evil," unless your definition of "evil" is rejecting religion or rejecting Catholicism. If that is your definition of "evil", then there are multiple reasons that people do "good," such as
a) they were born into it, had no opportunity to believe otherwise;
b) they were desperate for or sought the benefits that may come from joining the religion (e.g. Muslims & Jews in Inquisition-era Spain, when joining the church saved their lives & property, Natives in South America facing Conquistadors, a lonely prisoner...);
b) they're gullible; c) the possibility of eternal burning in hell scares them
c) they despise the alternative religion (e.g. hate Muslims) But I think such "goodness" is actually evil, certainly anti-American, one reason I despise the Taliban -- such goodness is oppressive of one's true self. I don't support nor care to pursue such "good;" living like that for eternity would be hell, not heaven.
Now, there's no hope of me persuading Father John nor most believers of the fallacies of their beliefs: their brains literally won't absorb the validity of my arguments; it's like trying to prove two plus two is four to someone who's been brainwashed to believe that two is a trick, is a made-up number, or someone who prefers to "believe" a lie because they benefit from pretending....
3) The Burden of Proof Isn't On Me
By demanding that I prove people do good on their own, without God, Father John expects me to disprove God's existence, as other believers expect, when they've not first presented even a prima facie/apparent case that God exists, let alone the specific God that they expect me to believe in. There's nothing to disprove, & whenever Atheists do so using conceptual mathematics, logic, physics, etc, believers simply imagine more curtains behind which their God "may" be hiding behind -- not surprising, as questioning God's existence is a fatal sin! (Apparently their Almighty God is insecure....)
People do good in the Good-Samaritan sense because the empathetic, impulses suppressing, rational & pro-social components of their brains developed in a healthy, typical manner, without such development being interrupted by trauma of various kinds. This is
explained in such books as Parental Incarceration, Routledge(2016 or 2017).
Beliefs in God may scare some into being pseudo-good, but no intangible spirits nor Gods can nor do cause the physical/neurological processes that result in one doing good (it does require a lengthier explanation for me to articulate how neurons, interneural connections & synaptic activity cause any/all human behavior -- such a "material theory of mind" has not yet, as far as I know, been ENTIRELY articulated by neuroscientists; I've been working on it, but have been distracted by litigation....). This theory is more rational and proven than "God did it."
Final Thoughts
- ----------------------
My blog is for grownups, those who seek & cherish truth and understanding certainly not people who want me to play make believe with them. That may narrow my audience to three or four people, but THOSE three or four people - homo sapiens sapiens, very wise apes - are precious to me!
Don't expect me to hold my tongue should you get on b.s. Come correct, as will I.


Replies (5) Replies feed

tenzintenzin Posted 4 years, 2 months ago. ✓ Mailed 4 years, 2 months ago   Favorite
What good what's evil? A serial killer takes out ten people leaves twenty families and friends to mourn. A man drops a bomb on a town kills two thousand people leaves a million people to mourn lost one's. This is why men go to war an there are few female serial killers. A man lacks 'impulse control', women have it in spades. Men lack the ability to understand consequences and a woman carries around with them like she carries a purse. Comes down to the crux of is there a tally keeper? St Michael with his book, Mohammed and his Angel watching you at all times, an my favourite of course (being Buddhist) the great law of karma, and last but not least the great American Judicial system. A Penitentiary was given name name with the hope that the person Locke up in there would reflect on his/her actions and feel penitent for their actions. But all that seems to happen is a lot of naval gazing feeling sorry for themselves for simply being caught, because after all, don't we all think we are the smartest person in the room? A man will see a can in the street and kick it, a woman would walk past it. Impulse control. But maybe, a good person who wanted to live in a good area with people who they don't feel afraid of would simply pick up that can. There is a third way. T.
Ps. You seem cemented in Christian Theology regarding behaviour morals and consequences. May I suggest you immediately start studying comparative religion. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judasim,Islam, Jainism, Rastafarian, Zoroastrian. For example the killing of a cow, either deliberate or accidental in the India subcontinent would result in your immediate death. Cows are sacred to the Hindus, yet a staple dietary requirement to the North Americans.

Nathaniel Lindell Posted 4 years, 1 month ago.   Favorite
(scanned reply – view as blog post)

tenzintenzin Posted 4 years ago. ✓ Mailed 4 years ago   Favorite
Hey Prometheus.
Re :Roseanne Barr, well they got her in the end didn’t they? When she very first started out they quickly realised the original show was going to be a huge success so they tried to take creative control away from her and employ a team of writers like they do on other shows. she refused, they pressured her, attempted to fire her, and it was only because John Goodman stood up for her that they backed down. But then, she gets wired and loose of lip on twitter and they jumped her and took everything away. I hope she writes something better and smacks back, there is something very malevolent in the entertainment industry.
The problem with the Judo/christian mindset is there is no lea way for trouble. We are christian we are good, if you ain’t christian you are a threat to me. Same with Islam, Judaism. The amount of people trying to convert me over the years The mormons, Scientologist and the Abrahamic . I’m not a great Buddhist but I can decide to be at the moment while my mind is mine. I try to be a good human being, but, some people really got it coming, I can’t meditate, never could, I do chant, use the beads, pilgrimages, pray.
I think men are supposed NOT to have impulse control, it’s anatomical, that makes them good hunters because they are impulsive and will move at a seconds breath and kill a deer or something. They will make a decision fast, that will take their family to safety instead of, like a woman go into the minutiae of everything. .
I’m pretty knackered at the moment. I’m writing this from a hospital bed, had some surgery and feeling weak. I ma6 write more later, don’t know.
Stay well and keep them on their toes!

Nathaniel Lindell Posted 3 years, 12 months ago.   Favorite
(scanned reply – view as blog post)

tenzintenzin Posted 3 years, 11 months ago. ✓ Mailed 3 years, 11 months ago   Favorite
Hello Nathaniel
The thing with ageing is, realistically we’re not supposed to live beyond 38. It is medical science and chemistry that has prolonged our lives into the eighties, (for some).
Like a car, into my retirement sixties now, pieces fall off. get blocked, or just fail to start. Now I’m an old codger, complete with walking stick, shopping trolley and limp, Many of my friends never made it this far.
Have you ever considered the possibility that jail may have prolonged your life? Maybe in the outside world of nonterra firma you would have been ‘toes up’ by now and sprouting daisies?
Inside my head isn’t a great place. I dislike silence and introversion. I like chanting mantras, OM namah Shivah, Nam myoho rengay kyo. Among favourites. That’s why I don’t meditate. I think I would go quickly insane in a SHU. It’s my ambition to retire to India, live in a nunnery among fellow Buddhists, I’ve spent time like that before in my life, Marriage killed off the celibacy! I think my husband will probably follow me there, he’s Muslim but quite open minded and accepting of other people and their faiths. He does like vodka though, and they don’t have much of that halfway up the Himalayas! Also, being in India and dying there increases my chances of being reincarnated nearby. I don’t want to come back here, in the west. It’s not good here in the most important of ways,
Buddhism appealed to me because it makes the most logical sense. ‘God’ or whatever this energy is that created everything is something we lack the intellectual ability to understand. Look at a human being, then think about those microbes we cannot see that live on its eyelash. Starfish, wombats, skunks, snakes, stink bugs, fireflies, whales, peacocks, ants. Did you know that the domestic ant has a lifespan of 15 years? It lives in a community with others, they even perform surgery on each other. A honey bee lives just one month.
What we evolved from in just 200,000 years, yet most other species stayed the same. We are consciousness. This is a video game. We didn’t choose the game, but we can choose how we play within in.
Most of us have had troubled childhoods. It is the 1 percent that get raised by Ma Walton. Polishing your legacy doesn’t have to be done confrontationally. Look at what Gandhi did by non violence.
Going by the turn around on this blogging site I will probably hear from you sometime in 2020 if we both make it that far.
All the best. Hope Christmas is good for you, although Santa probably has you on his naughty list, Happy New Year and all that.

We will print and mail your reply by . Guidelines

Other posts by this author


Get notifications when new letters or replies are posted!

Posts by Nathaniel Lindell: RSS email me
Comments on “Some Fallacies of Theists: An Attempt to Save Catholics' & Other Believers' Souls”: RSS email me
Featured posts: RSS email me
All Between the Bars posts: RSS