Just read your "Catholic Talk" post. I think you have some good points there. I admit I had linked the scandals with the idea of celibacy as well, but I think you may have convinced me otherwise. Thanks.
As a side point, I believe celibacy is explicitly spoken against in the Bible. That is, celibacy should not be mandatory. It is merely encouraged by Paul as a better choice, but not as a mandatory way of ministerial life. I'm not sure where the Catholic Church got this notion. The 1 Timothy 4:1-3 passage seems to settle it for me.
But as for your conclusion in your post, I don't agree. You write:
"Let's go back to the early Church. Bishops were elected by the populace. The pope was elected by the populace."
When I think back over the history as recorded in the Bible, there are not many elections. Indeed, when people tried to usurp power in a democratic way, this was punished in the Old Testament (see Numbers 16). Not only did the "men of renown" get punished, but the people, when they complained, were punished as well.
Why? I think it's because, as you say, the church is not a democracy. God picks His leaders, not the people, nor a select few.
Noah wasn't elected. Abraham wasn't elected. Moses wasn't elected. Samson wasn't elected. Gideon wasn't elected. The prophets weren't elected. John the Baptist wasn't elected. Jesus wasn't elected. The one apostle that was sort of elected to replace Judas falls off the pages of history about as fast as he got on them. Paul wasn't elected.
The big leaders in the church are chosen by God, not by man. And for me, that calls into question the whole idea of a "pope."
As for deacons or bishops, these were chosen by the people, but on the instructions of the twelve disciples, who gave the qualifications required. (Acts 6) But these positions were ones of service, not lording it over the people. (Mark 10:42-44)
If there is a need to call for democracy in the church, then I think that very need is a sign of trouble in both the leadership and the congregation. The people who work hard at service are naturally highly esteemed by the people who witness the work. These are real leaders. The kinds of people who nobody wants to replace because they are already bending over backwards to do good for those under them. (This is true not just in the church, but everywhere.) But if the "leaders" need to be replaced by some democratic process because either they are abusing their power or the people want a piece of the action, then as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3:3: "for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"
In other words, if democracy is the solution, then the church has bigger problems. There should be no force or power to fight over, because the rule of the church is to love one another.
MY NAME IS CHRISHAUN "CECE" AKA "HONEE BEA" MCDONALD, AND I JUST READ YOUR LETTER... MY LOVE AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO YOU IN THIS CRISIS THAT YOU'RE IN. I KNOW THE FEELING TO BE OPPRESSED, BUT NEVER COULD I IMAGINE HAVING TO SPEND MY WHOLE LIFE BEING IN THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT. TO FEEL NOT YOURSELF, BUT MORE LIKE PROPERTY OF THE STATE. YOU INSPIRE ME TO FIGHT HARDER IN THE CASE I'M DEALING WITH NOW. SO THAT WE AS INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE CAN ALSO HAVE THE SAME RESPECT AS THOSE WHO FEEL THAT WE ARE WORTH NOTHING. I LOVE THAT YOU'RE SUCH A STRONG PERSON, AND YOU GIVE ME HOPE TO GIVE TO OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS. PLEASE NEVER STOP LOOKING FOR WAYS TO GET OUT BECAUSE I'M SURE THERE IS A LOOP HOLE SOMEWHERE IN THIS. BUT IN BETWEEN TIME, I WILL BE FIGHTING THE CAUSE FOR US WITH THIS CASE, AND FOR THE FUTURE.
whats new in my life well lets see i have a job an i work 6 days a week full time i barely have time for my kids but the wonderful thing is that i live with them now and with erics mom our GOD sure is amazing he has blessed me so much latly me and erics 10 year wedding anniversary was october 27th we renewed our wedding vows at our church and i got to wear a white wedding dress i also help out in our church i help out in there sunday school class with the 2's and 3's it sure is amazing to see all the good works of the lord in every kid i truly miss you daddy i luv u very much xoxox talk to you soon sammy
I'm looking into my eyes in the portrait you drew. I see understanding, love and compassion. I hope that is what you saw if you felt the emotions in my face while you were practicing your newly art style. She has the expression of a kind, sensitive and motherly woman who is interested and serious about who she wants to impress. The flower on the headress makes me look gentle but the broad strong jawline you gave me shows that I have a strong masculine trait that only an Aries possesses! Do you agree? Hope you answer this email since you have avoided responding to my letters and card. Is there a problem I don't know about?
I'm looking into my eyes in the portrait you drew. I see understanding, love and compassion. I hope that is what you saw if you felt the emotions in my face while you were practicing your newly art style. She has the expression of a kind, sensitive and motherly woman who is interested and serious about who she wants to impress. The flower on the headress makes me look gentle but the broad strong jawline you gave me shows that I have a strong masculine trait that only an Aries possesses! Do you agree? Hope answer this email since you have avoided responding to my letters and card.
Every time I read or talk to you about what happen it stills makes me cry I know that drugs have a powerful control over ones life it is so sad that more people are not aware of this and can get help before it escalades into something that makes one do something that changes their own life and so many others. I am so proud of the man you are and always was except during a time when Satan had control. I know that our lives are changed forever and that things will never be the same, I am still so very proud of you and what you are doing behind the fence. Joe I know God is watching out for you and that He is using you there. I love you and I really appreciate the the opportunity to get to read the blogs you write. Take care and remember I love you very much. Mom
I remember sitting with you in visitation and hearing you tell this. Amazing how so many things can fall in place to bring such a tragic end. I hate I missed a visit last time, but maybe soon I will be back to see you. I read your first post and the mention of diving. I have told so many people that I always wanted to go into space, but diving was as close as I could get to that. It is like exploring an alien world. I know you do also, but I wish things were different and we could go Scuba diving together and share magic tricks like we use to. Try to keep your head up man! Tim
hi joe-we're finally getting to talk to each other. do you realize that during the 15 or so years our parents have been married, you and i have never met!! what a shame. we just never seemed to end up in the same place at the same time. i want you to know i think you're mother is a wonderful person. i love her dearly. but i'm sure you already know all of that. you're a lucky indivilal to have been raised by such a careing mom. i lost mine in 2001 and my youngest brother, jody in 2008 and then my only other brother, curtis, the 2nd of sept. 2011. but not 1 time have i needed a shoulder or some advice or any kind of support , that your mom hasn't been there for me. i've kinda known why you're in there. but never ask right out . but reading your words about why gives me new insight about the whole situation. all i know is-drugs make you stupid and no one should ever think your circumstances can't happen in ANYBODYS family. never say never. i learned the hard way too. hopefuly , this won't be the only time i can communicate with you. ill look for future blogs.. may God bless you every day and keep you in his loving arms. diana
Law of Heru You have the power but not the right to ignore God’s Law. Choose to follow the Law of God with the love and joy that grows out of your understanding, and the wisdom and power of God’s spirit will flow through your being. Reasoning: If we have been given free will, why should we give in to emotions that have proven to be detrimental to our well-being? Why not choose to be at peace in all situations of challenge, especially since this is the key to wisdom, power and happiness? Heru Truisms: I understand that at any time I have the freedom to act as if I have successfully overcome a given emotion. My freedom to choose is the essence of my divinity. I will, therefore I am free. I am never compelled to do anything by my emotions and passion. God does not compel me to do what is right. How then can the animal within me compel me to do what is wrong. Shall I make Set grater than God?~Ra Un Nefer Amen
My emotions are children of impotent revolt.
I have the freedom to hold myself in check to take a view of the whole before acting.
RSS
Just read your "Catholic Talk" post. I think you have some good points there. I admit I had linked the scandals with the idea of celibacy as well, but I think you may have convinced me otherwise. Thanks.
As a side point, I believe celibacy is explicitly spoken against in the Bible. That is, celibacy should not be mandatory. It is merely encouraged by Paul as a better choice, but not as a mandatory way of ministerial life. I'm not sure where the Catholic Church got this notion. The 1 Timothy 4:1-3 passage seems to settle it for me.
But as for your conclusion in your post, I don't agree. You write:
"Let's go back to the early Church. Bishops were elected by the populace. The pope was elected by the populace."
When I think back over the history as recorded in the Bible, there are not many elections. Indeed, when people tried to usurp power in a democratic way, this was punished in the Old Testament (see Numbers 16). Not only did the "men of renown" get punished, but the people, when they complained, were punished as well.
Why? I think it's because, as you say, the church is not a democracy. God picks His leaders, not the people, nor a select few.
Noah wasn't elected. Abraham wasn't elected. Moses wasn't elected. Samson wasn't elected. Gideon wasn't elected. The prophets weren't elected. John the Baptist wasn't elected. Jesus wasn't elected. The one apostle that was sort of elected to replace Judas falls off the pages of history about as fast as he got on them. Paul wasn't elected.
The big leaders in the church are chosen by God, not by man. And for me, that calls into question the whole idea of a "pope."
As for deacons or bishops, these were chosen by the people, but on the instructions of the twelve disciples, who gave the qualifications required. (Acts 6) But these positions were ones of service, not lording it over the people. (Mark 10:42-44)
If there is a need to call for democracy in the church, then I think that very need is a sign of trouble in both the leadership and the congregation. The people who work hard at service are naturally highly esteemed by the people who witness the work. These are real leaders. The kinds of people who nobody wants to replace because they are already bending over backwards to do good for those under them. (This is true not just in the church, but everywhere.) But if the "leaders" need to be replaced by some democratic process because either they are abusing their power or the people want a piece of the action, then as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3:3: "for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"
In other words, if democracy is the solution, then the church has bigger problems. There should be no force or power to fight over, because the rule of the church is to love one another.
MY NAME IS CHRISHAUN "CECE" AKA "HONEE BEA" MCDONALD, AND I JUST READ YOUR LETTER... MY LOVE AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO YOU IN THIS CRISIS THAT YOU'RE IN. I KNOW THE FEELING TO BE OPPRESSED, BUT NEVER COULD I IMAGINE HAVING TO SPEND MY WHOLE LIFE BEING IN THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT. TO FEEL NOT YOURSELF, BUT MORE LIKE PROPERTY OF THE STATE. YOU INSPIRE ME TO FIGHT HARDER IN THE CASE I'M DEALING WITH NOW. SO THAT WE AS INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE CAN ALSO HAVE THE SAME RESPECT AS THOSE WHO FEEL THAT WE ARE WORTH NOTHING. I LOVE THAT YOU'RE SUCH A STRONG PERSON, AND YOU GIVE ME HOPE TO GIVE TO OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS. PLEASE NEVER STOP LOOKING FOR WAYS TO GET OUT BECAUSE I'M SURE THERE IS A LOOP HOLE SOMEWHERE IN THIS. BUT IN BETWEEN TIME, I WILL BE FIGHTING THE CAUSE FOR US WITH THIS CASE, AND FOR THE FUTURE.
SINCEREST LOVE AND GRATITUDE,
HONEE BEA
I love you very much.
Mom
I read your first post and the mention of diving. I have told so many people that I always wanted to go into space, but diving was as close as I could get to that. It is like exploring an alien world. I know you do also, but I wish things were different and we could go Scuba diving together and share magic tricks like we use to.
Try to keep your head up man!
Tim
You have the power but not the right to ignore God’s Law. Choose to follow the Law of God with the love and joy that grows out of your understanding, and the wisdom and power of God’s spirit will flow through your being.
Reasoning:
If we have been given free will, why should we give in to emotions that have proven to be detrimental to our well-being? Why not choose to be at peace in all situations of challenge, especially since this is the key to wisdom, power and happiness?
Heru Truisms:
I understand that at any time I have the freedom to act as if I have successfully overcome a given emotion.
My freedom to choose is the essence of my divinity.
I will, therefore I am free.
I am never compelled to do anything by my emotions and passion.
God does not compel me to do what is right. How then can the animal within me compel me to do what is wrong. Shall I make Set grater than God?~Ra Un Nefer Amen
My emotions are children of impotent revolt.
I have the freedom to hold myself in check to take a view of the whole before acting.